(06-10-2009 05:44 AM)FireMarie Wrote:  The human body is electric.
So a spirit would be.

That's what doesn't make sense to me though.
Theory is that a spirit is disembodied, meaning without a body, so why would we assume that a thing without a body has the same properties as a living body? Just because it once was a body? The body produces electrical impulses, it does not act as a repository for them. A dead body will stop producing them. Any built up energy left over eventually converts to heat.

I think of it like this: your car engine generates electricity, but if the battery/alternator dies, it can no longer make electricity. The human body is a machine like that insofar as it uses food to convert into chemical energy which produces bioelectrical impulses. Take away the fuel/food and heartbeat and the energy production stops. The energy is not destroyed, but changes form from electrical to thermal energy and disperses. Sorry if this is going off topic, but it goes back to my original argument about the use of some equipment. If we can't positively identify the physical (or metaphysical) characteristics of a ghost, then we are really taking a stab in the dark about what to use to detect one. Hope that all makes sense...

I try not to get to techi when im out.

I carry this in my kit (my spongebob carry case. Nothing wrong with the sponge)
zip lock baggies with salt, flour, and my smokes because really if i am going to get lost in the woods i need smoke smokes and i don't want them to get wet.
My voice recorder
a digital cam (havent cought anything with it though)
GPS
my hunting knife and a back up just in case.
First aid
Flares (in the car)
flash lights
if i can get it my sister video recorder
thats all i need to bring others in my group are more high tech.

(06-10-2009 08:53 AM)lilith Wrote:  

(06-10-2009 05:44 AM)FireMarie Wrote:  The human body is electric.
So a spirit would be.

That's what doesn't make sense to me though.
Theory is that a spirit is disembodied, meaning without a body, so why would we assume that a thing without a body has the same properties as a living body? Just because it once was a body? The body produces electrical impulses, it does not act as a repository for them. A dead body will stop producing them. Any built up energy left over eventually converts to heat.

I think of it like this: your car engine generates electricity, but if the battery/alternator dies, it can no longer make electricity. The human body is a machine like that insofar as it uses food to convert into chemical energy which produces bioelectrical impulses. Take away the fuel/food and heartbeat and the energy production stops. The energy is not destroyed, but changes form from electrical to thermal energy and disperses. Sorry if this is going off topic, but it goes back to my original argument about the use of some equipment. If we can't positively identify the physical (or metaphysical) characteristics of a ghost, then we are really taking a stab in the dark about what to use to detect one. Hope that all makes sense...

The body only needs food to fuel the physical. Once its left that burden it feeds off ambient energy, or in many cases a ghost will go psy vamp and feed off living people.

I've actually walked through/put my hand in, ghosts before, and felt the buzzing. Its like being touched by a staticed balloon.

We probably need a separate thread for this, but it still ties in to what equipment to use and for what purpose...

(06-11-2009 03:49 AM)FireMarie Wrote:  The body only needs food to fuel the physical.

We are in agreement here.

(06-11-2009 03:49 AM)FireMarie Wrote:  Once its left that burden it feeds off ambient energy, or in many cases a ghost will go psy vamp and feed off living people.

We were talking about the energy a ghost gives off that is detectable, rather than what it is absorbing. Now if we are operating under the assumption that a ghost does feed off ambient energy, certain equipment may be used to measure deficiencies in the ambient energy readings (i.e. cold spots, battery drain-although batteries aren't ambient energy). What we want to know is, since ghosts don't just walk around in plain sight offering energy samples to whomever is asking, what types of energy is a ghost giving off that would make it detectable with all this fancy equipment? We can guess, but fact is we do not yet know, or else all of the mystery of the paranormal would by solved and this forum would be of no use.

But here's where the logic goes out the window....if a ghost needs to gather energy in order to manifest into being, then it is not producing its own energy, as a living corporeal body does. It is essentially parasitic. So assuming it feeds off various energies in the natural environment (electromagnetic, thermal, kinetic, etc...) these are all found in pockets everywhere...magnetic currents underground in the earth, emitted by humans, and emitted by mineral deposits. How do we know, when we whip out that EMF detector because we heard a noise, that the electromagnetic radiation is by default a ghost and not a current underground on that property being investigated? You would need a resident geologist there to take samples to confirm where it is NOT coming from. And, it's well established that the presence of such currents can cause hallucinations, bad vibes, etc...so are we hallucinating the sound/apparition/creepy feeling because of the high EMF field or is the ghost causing the high EMF field? It can't be measured both ways because you can't distinguish which came first.

(06-11-2009 04:46 AM)lilith Wrote:  But here's where the logic goes out the window....if a ghost needs to gather energy in order to manifest into being, then it is not producing its own energy, as a living corporeal body does. It is essentially parasitic. So assuming it feeds off various energies in the natural environment (electromagnetic, thermal, kinetic, etc...) these are all found in pockets everywhere...magnetic currents underground in the earth, emitted by humans, and emitted by mineral deposits. How do we know, when we whip out that EMF detector because we heard a noise, that the electromagnetic radiation is by default a ghost and not a current underground on that property being investigated? You would need a resident geologist there to take samples to confirm where it is NOT coming from. And, it's well established that the presence of such currents can cause hallucinations, bad vibes, etc...so are we hallucinating the sound/apparition/creepy feeling because of the high EMF field or is the ghost causing the high EMF field? It can't be measured both ways because you can't distinguish which came first.

I totally agree with this, I think EMF's are highly flawed. But was trying to make the point that ghosts are electric. So in some cases they might work.

Instruments set for UFO research.

sensor microwave field and the indicator of ultraviolet and X-ray radiation (security sensor), electrostatic sensor, infrared radiation sensor, a magnetic field sensor, probe the biophysical activity of plants.



Source: http://astral2.com/blog/devices/29.html

(06-11-2009 04:46 AM)lilith Wrote:  We probably need a separate thread for this, but it still ties in to what equipment to use and for what purpose...

(06-11-2009 03:49 AM)FireMarie Wrote:  The body only needs food to fuel the physical.

We are in agreement here.

(06-11-2009 03:49 AM)FireMarie Wrote:  Once its left that burden it feeds off ambient energy, or in many cases a ghost will go psy vamp and feed off living people.

We were talking about the energy a ghost gives off that is detectable, rather than what it is absorbing. Now if we are operating under the assumption that a ghost does feed off ambient energy, certain equipment may be used to measure deficiencies in the ambient energy readings (i.e. cold spots, battery drain-although batteries aren't ambient energy). What we want to know is, since ghosts don't just walk around in plain sight offering energy samples to whomever is asking, what types of energy is a ghost giving off that would make it detectable with all this fancy equipment? We can guess, but fact is we do not yet know, or else all of the mystery of the paranormal would by solved and this forum would be of no use.

But here's where the logic goes out the window....if a ghost needs to gather energy in order to manifest into being, then it is not producing its own energy, as a living corporeal body does. It is essentially parasitic. So assuming it feeds off various energies in the natural environment (electromagnetic, thermal, kinetic, etc...) these are all found in pockets everywhere...magnetic currents underground in the earth, emitted by humans, and emitted by mineral deposits. How do we know, when we whip out that EMF detector because we heard a noise, that the electromagnetic radiation is by default a ghost and not a current underground on that property being investigated? You would need a resident geologist there to take samples to confirm where it is NOT coming from. And, it's well established that the presence of such currents can cause hallucinations, bad vibes, etc...so are we hallucinating the sound/apparition/creepy feeling because of the high EMF field or is the ghost causing the high EMF field? It can't be measured both ways because you can't distinguish which came first.

So, most agree that EMF don't distinguish between electricity given off by ghosts, and electricity given off by other sources, correct? So, isn't that precisely why people use an array of different items and/or gadgets? because when you put them together they help they can both help prove and disprove some of the clues, to help pinpoin whether it is or is not a ghost? Such as, say you get high EMF readings in certain places. That doesn't tell you that it is paranormal activity, however if you then use it in conjunction with say your digital voice recorder, and you get EVP's, but you use your thermal device because of a cold spot, and find that there is a source or reason other than paranormal activity for the temperature difference. Isn't that why paranormal investigators head in with a variety of devices. To get the readings, and debunk what can be debunked, and help explain what cannot? Sorry, I hope that came out right I was trying to explain myself, without totally confusing everyone with the way it was coming out

For EVP, do you guys use a digital audio recorder? or do any of you use a standard tape recorder? The reason that I ask is, I bought one of those small recorders with the little cassette tapes..I went for cheap (my bad), and even when it's not recording any noises, the "ssssssshhhhhhhh" sound is so loud that I'm afraid that I couldn't hear anything if there was something to hear. I'm totally thinking that the digital is probably better, but don't want to go out and spend the money if I'm gonna have the same problem. And what about dousing rods? Does anybody use them?

we use digital recorders. we've never had a problem. you will always have background noise. but i would imagine it's nothing like what you're hearing with the tape recorder. i've never used those though, so I can't compare. but i know going through our evidence with the digital has never been a problem for us. it's worth the money, i say!